Attention Baseball Fans: Don’t Hold Back. Tell Me What You Really Think Of Roger!
His nickname is the "Rocket". Actually his first name is William but he goes by the name of Roger. He has very impressive statistics:
- Won six Cy Young awards with four different teams
- Has 354 wins
- His career ERA is 3.12
- Has 4,672 strikeouts
- Nine-time All-Star
In addition he has a ton of other awards and milestones that he accomplished. During his career he made close to $150,000,000 yes, I said 150 million dollars.
Roger was actually drafted by the NY Mets but didn’t sign and that allowed my Red Sox to draft and sign him. When he was with the Red Sox I really liked him. In fact I loved to watch him pitch. I still recall the playoffs way back when the Red Sox won a game that would get them into the 1986 World Series and the picture in the Boston Globe and Boston Herald of Roger smoking a cigar sitting on a horse riding around Fenway Park with his close friends Al Nipper and Bruce Hurst.
As I mentioned his on the field stats are great. Incredible. Some of the best.
Off the field–ugh! It is filled with accusations and denials. Daily he is now getting blasted on TV, on the Web and in newspapers.
My opinion of Roger has changed. Here is a guy who has a ton of money (I assume) and could have the BEST legal counsel money could buy. Why didn’t he do that? I wish he would have admitted whatever mistakes he made! People forgive you when you stand up and you are man enough to say I MADE A MISTAKE! Pettitte and Giambi did it and people haven’t given them a hard time at all. Roger for some crazy reason decided he wasn’t going to admit anything. Maybe it is because he truly believes he is above it all. He is bigger than the game and thought he could get away with it.
William Roger Clemens not that I think you care, but you have one LESS fan! No longer will I try and defend you or make excuses for what you did or didn’t do. You did what you did and now need to suffer the consequences.
Everyone is taking a shot at him and has an opinion.
- The real question is what is yours?
- Does he get into the Hall of Fame?
I look forward to hearing you thoughts and comments.
June 27th, 2008 at 10:41 am
My opinion of him is (and always has been , even way before all this steroid stuff) that he is a great pitcher and an arrogant a**. Hopefully one day his records will have a big ASSterisk next to them.
I hope the HoF voters ignore the stars of the Steroid Era.
June 27th, 2008 at 10:47 am
Maybe he hasn’t secured the best legal counsel he can afford because he doesn’t want people to think he is guilty, because maybe he is not.
Innocent until Proven Guilty, correct…
June 27th, 2008 at 10:48 am
As always there are two sides to the persona of a ball player. Professional and personal.
As a player Roger was dominant (with or with out steroids). Most players probably were on steroids so it evens itself out. He was aggressive and pushed the envelope often
As a person he is hard to root for, and hard to respect.
I think the Rocket has taken off and crashed landed. I no longer respect him nor would want my children to look up to him…..
But at the end of the day…I still think he goes in the hall of shame
June 27th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Roger has great statistics and should be in the Hall of Fame. I don’t think that jerks should necessarily be excluded from the Hall of Fame. He made $150,000,000 because he could pitch, not because he was a nice guy. I have always considered Roger to be selfish and arrogant and mostly about the money. That has never kept anybody out of the Hall of Fame. I have never had a desire to have a drink or smoke a cigar with him. I did from time to time enjoy watching him pitch. I think he stole money from the Yankees, but that is their problem. I also enjoyed watching Pete Rose play baseball, but wouldn’t stand in line to get his autograph.
You mention one memorable key game that he won - I missed that one. Beyond that I can’t remember an important game that he won or team that he carried. He was not the key to the Yankee World Series wins, although he won a game or two. Heck, he even lost the All Star game in Houston when he was an Astro. He didn’t win game 6 of the 1986 World Series that could have made Bill Buckner’s life much easier. I think he should have been with Boston his entire career - he looked goofy in a Blue Jays uniform with a Cy Young award.
If the game were on the line and it was game 7 of any World Series, I would rather have Jack Morris or Curt Schilling on the mound instead of Roger Clemens. That raises another question, “why isn’t Jack Morris in the Hall of Fame.” He was a “money” pitcher who was not all about the money.
June 27th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Merrill Based on the statistics Roger is a Hall of Farmer, but based on all the accusations that have come to light it leaves me to believe he is no better than Mark McGuire. I think the sports writers will not vote him in at least the first go round.
June 27th, 2008 at 11:11 am
I’m with you Merrill. I wish he would’ve sought legal help and admitted he made mistakes. Showing accountability would’ve been received positively, and his long term reputation would’ve been better off for it.
I was a big fan too — during the ’90’s maybe the only guy I enjoyed watching pitch more was Maddux (GO CUBS!). I think Roger’s problem was his gut reaction to this problem — treating it like a confrontation on the mound with unwavering determination to WIN. That’s a great character trait when facing a batter but not so good for facing the government.
As for the HOF, this whole era will be really interesting — and BTW it’s not over as players have a significant $ incentive to skirt the rules. I can’t say yet where I stand on whether he should be in or out. His stats are tremendous, but the issues weigh heavily.
June 27th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Merrill, I couldn’t agree with you more on this. I’ve always had a lot of respect for Roger as a player and I sure wished he was on my team. But now I just see him as a very sorry individual and he has lost any admiration I once had for him.
Will he go into the hall of fame? Absolutely.
Should he go in……well, if you keep him out then you have to keep out all suspected steroid users and how do you administer that? So I guess my answer is begrudgingly that he deserves it as much as any others from the steroid era.
June 27th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Roger was a great pitcher, but far too many times great athletes try to hold on much longer than they should. Only Roger knows the truth behind what he did or did not do, but from what has been said and alleged I do not think he should be rewarded by going into the hall of fame.
I agree with you Merrill, that if Roger would have come clean the public would have probably forgiven him. Rogers friends “yes men,” have probably given him some bad advice, but if he really is a family man and taught his boys right from wrong; Roger would have come correct.
Whether you are talking to your family, a friend, or the media you should disclose the truth, because if you do not the truth will come out and you will look like a fool.
I am a fan of sports, but I do not like to know about the “other side” of sports (arrests, drugs, infidelity, etc.) That should be taken care of on the inside.
Just my opinion…
June 27th, 2008 at 11:36 am
I remember Roger helping to win a big game for Boston. He started the all-star game in Houston for the NL and was terrible. The AL won that day giving Boston home field advantage in the World Series. Thanks Roger.
June 27th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Will,
Good question about jack Morris - I saw him pitch many times and frustrate the Red Sox Great pitcher here are some of his career highlights:
1981 - The Sporting News Pitcher of the Year
1984 - Babe Ruth Award
1991 - Babe Ruth Award
1991 - World Series Most Valuable Player
All Star: 1981, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1991
AL Wins Leader: 1981, 1992
AL Strikeouts Leader: 1983
AL Shutouts Leader: 1986
Hold the major league record for consecutive opening day starts, with 14 (1980-1993)
And I think he has 4 World Series Rings!
He should be in and will get in. I believe the reason he doesn’t if because he doesn’t have the magic 300 wins.
Will - good comments.
Thanks.
Merrill
June 27th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
I totally agree with you Merrill. Perhaps the most ironic item is your picture on top of him and the picture from him testifying back in February.
Amazing to see the difference.
Yes, he won 2 World Series with the Yankees and played in 2 others but in 99 and 00 they were winning the Series without him.
He certainly did not help the Red Sox at all in the playoffs in 86, 88 or 90.
He won the clinching game in 99 but they were up 3-0 in the series.
He pitched well in Game 7 against Arizona in 01 and we all know the unfortunate outcome of that one.
He was awful in Game 7 of the 03 ALCS. Thank God for Mike Mussina that game.
I think he will get in to the HOF but not for a few years.
June 27th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Roger was a mean and nasty player on the field, which was very good for the teams he played on and for the fans of those teams. So guess what? Yep, Roger is a mean and nasty person off the field. Big surprise.
Roger is a lock on the HoF.
Will Morris raised the question about Jack Morris not being in the HoF. Jack hated reporters and was nothing but a complete jerk during post game interviews. Because of his antagonistic attitude many a beat writer missed their deadlines. So when it came time for Cy Young Awards, Jack got zero. Since Jack did not get either 300 victories or 3,000 strikeouts and had no friendships with any of the baseball writers, he is constantly being snubbed by the writers. Today, Jack is color announcer for the Tigers and now understands the of work journalists and reporters. He honestly admits he was a jerk and that he understands the treatment he has received from the voting baseball writers.
Another player who is on the bubble for HoF, but will not make it because he was as big of a jerk as Jack Morris, is Bert Blyleven. I met him in 1994 at a minor league game in Lake Elsinore, CA. He was ahead of me in the Will Call ticket line. I went up to him, extended my right hand and said “Mr. Blyleven, it is a pleasure meeting you. I was in the stands in Cleveland the night you won your 200th game.” He just stood there with an evil look in his eye like I had called his mother a bad name and then turned around.
Boys if your dream is to make it to the MLB HoF, just member to be nice to the writers and the fans on your way. It worked for Gary Carter, Dennis Eckersley and Kirby Puckett.
June 27th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Ugh I hate Roger Clemens. Couple of reasons:
* I loved him as a kid. I remember watching the tape of his 20 strikeout game against the Tigers when I was a kid like 20 times. He mowed people down and rode into the sunset…but he didn’t ride far enough. He went from a 300 lb. bum in his last year in Boston to hiring a “physical trainer”, getting fit, and winning a handful of Cy Youngs. He didn’t acknowledge Boston when he left because of his hatred for Dan Duquette but who knew he’d find the fountain of youth.
*He played for the Yankees and started doing all the things that make me hate them. He rubbed the Babe’s monument, he said he wanted to retire in pinstripes, he bullied poor lil Mike Piazza. Any player that has ever played in Boston then leaves for NY is all but dead to me with the exception of Boggs. I’m still trying to erase the photo of him riding that police horse.
*The whole “I can play from June to the end of September” thing. Notice I said September because even if his team made the playoffs…Roger never performed.
Okay, I need to breathe…
June 28th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
I think everyone is missing the boat here. first Roger Clemens was a great pitcher in Boston but towards the end he became a “very good” pitcher. That is not unusual because he was entering his mid 30’s and everyone slows down. He goes to Toronto and their he begins a second career as a steroid using ace. It is in Toronto that he hooks up with Canseco and magically his career is reborn. Look at the stats, in his second year in Toronto his numbers begin to drop off dramatically until he begins to use steroids.
INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY? I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. All of the facts prove he did steroids, Viagra and anything else he could have to cheat to win. Yankee fans hate him and see him as a selfish player out only for money. I am not sure their are any Blue Jay fans out their. As for Red Sox fans, I believe we look at Clemens just like Yankee fans do. A selfish sell out who is only interested in himself.
Go pull up past stats and look at some of the great pitchers of all time - Seaver, Palmer, Hunter, Gibson - they all dropped off towards their 40’s. pitchers in general do not get better as they get older - but Roger does?
will he make the hall of fame? Yes, because so many of the writers look at stats only and unlike Bonds, Clemens treated people who could help him with some respect.
I am sick of people stating that this guy was one of the greatest pitchers ever - He cheated to get to where he is.
The legal issues - i love it. Roger was too arrogant to admit that he had cheated. He felt he was above the law and would bully his way out of any mess. He stated he never did steroids - and was proven to be a lier. He is a devoted family man - and he cheated on his wife. He has either and personal sexual issue - or he just like to take Viagra to keep his jock strap tight when he pitches.
Bottom Line - Roger Clemens is a Hall of Fame Pitcher, cheater in both sports and family life, and is an arrogant, selfish S.O.B.
June 28th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Merrill, in my mind he is on a par with Barry Bonds. He had some great BB
credentials before he ever got into steroids and like most users tried to compensate for diminishing skills and certainly continued to benefit performance wise.
As men both he and Bonds are major failures. We all make mistakes and the right thing is to own up and not become contentious and indignant which both of them did.
Perhaps the first real indication that Roger was on something is when he pulled the bat throwing incident with Piazza. Low class.
HOF, probably because his stats before roids were HOF worthy assuming that it was the last 6 or 7 years that he started.
Lastly, his performance before Congress was shameful, especially bringing his wife into it. If he and or Bonds get in my protest will be to avoid watching their inductions and avoid reading their plaques when I visit Cooperstown.
By the way, I don’t Pete Rose should ever get in for his offense and his adamant denial and subsequent admission.
Joe
June 30th, 2008 at 9:52 am
Rick,
Thanks for not hiding your feelings - wow! Unfortunately he will get into the Hall of Fame and wearing a Sox cap for sure.
I just hope we have heard the last and all of his threats and lawsuits.
Merrill
June 30th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Joe,
Interesting comments - I think that Bonds is viewed by most differently and maybe that is partly because Roger was nice and talkative to SOME of the media while Bonds was always challenging to deal with. Not sure Pete makes the Hall until he is gone. In fact he probably will get in within 2 years of his passing. i wish he admitted it up front and people would have forgiven him for most of what he did.
Merrill
June 30th, 2008 at 10:03 am
Ed,
You are right - be nice! It shouldn’t and isn’t that hard. Baseball players are human beings too but for some reason some of them don’t realize that. Of all the major sports including soccer - baseball players can and do have the most interaction with fans. Before games they could all sign autographs and talk to the fans for an hour or more if they wanted too. No other sport can that happen.
Good comments Ed. Disappointing to hear about Blyleven.
Merrill
June 30th, 2008 at 10:46 am
To whom much is given, much is expected.
Time and time again, i fail to understand why being gifted athlete somehow gives you a pass on having to conduct yourself as a decent human being.
Roger Clemens has thrown his entire family under the bus trying to make sure that he gets into the Hall of Fame - you think better legal representation would have made any difference?
Please! He’s so arrogant, he can’t even see himself for the self-centered, self-aggrandizing, over-confident bloviating jerk that he is.
I don’t think he’ll get into the hall of fame. Nice should always matter.
thanks,
kath
June 30th, 2008 at 11:40 am
I have lost all respect for him. I remember he always said he wanted to spend more time at home with his 4 (I think?) boys! He put on a great show at the hearings for his sons and all of our children who love baseball.
What was he thinking?
June 30th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
Dubes-
Plain and simple Roger should’ve gone to prison when he flung the broken bat at Piazza in the World Series. That was at least an assault and could’ve got him an attempted murder and use of a deadly weapon. The steroid thing would just add to his time. Lock him up. No Hall of Fame. He’s a cheater and a felon. That being said, man what an incredible pitcher. The whole thing is sad.
June 30th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
I’d like to comment on two items that have been brought up:
Sorry folks, Pete Rose will never get in the HoF. Most people have not had the opportunity to visit a major league dugout, locker room or clubhouse. Of all the thousands of rules that are in baseball, only one is posted in every major league dugout, locker room and clubhouse. It is Rule 21, Section D which states:
“BETTING ON BALL GAMES. Any player, umpire, or club official or
employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in
connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared
ineligible for one year.
Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall
bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which
the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.”
Mr. Rose saw this sign every day he went to work from his first day in 1963 till his last day managing the Reds. He knew the rule. He is paying the price for breaking it.
Point two, for all you “Johnny-Do-Gooders” who wish to deny Roger, Barry Bones, McGwire, Sosa & anyone else their rightful place in the HoF (remember kids, I am a die hard Dodger fan and I really am not a fan of any of these gentlemen) because they “CHEATED” to get there, I say just be consistent with your stand. Once you have denied these players entry into the HoF, you need to insist on the expulsion of Gaylord Perry, Phil Niekro and Don Sutton, who all made it into the HoF based on throwing illegal pitches (i.e. CHEATING).
I am sure Lefty Grove, Ty Cobb, Leo Durocher, Whitey Ford, George Brett and John McGraw never cheated in their HoF careers (I say that with sarcasm).
June 30th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Anne,
Good question - he wasn’t thinking at all. I believe he relied on his lawyers which clearly was a huge mistake!
Thanks for your comments.
Merrill
June 30th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Kenyon,
Its interesting with everything negative about Roger we end with HE WAS A GREAT PITCHER - sad in deed.
Merrill
June 30th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Ed,
Interesting comments. Even though Pete Rose saw that sign each and everyday I think there stands a good chance that he will get in the Hall of Fame after he is long gone. Years ago he got over 40 write in votes (not sure if he has gotten any recently) so there is some sympathetic crowd out there. Also lots of writers only care what you do on the field not outside of the stadiums (to me it should be both) so he might get some votes there. His real punishment is not being alive to see the day he goes in, make a speech etc.
Ed your second question is also interesting to me most would say there is different levels of cheating. using spitballs is almost a misdemeanor and almost forgotten. Isn’t there a difference before robbing a bank and killing someone vs stealing a computer?
Merrill
June 30th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Merrill -
2007 was Pete’s last year on the baseball writer’s ballot. He is now at the mercy of the Veteran’s Committee and everyone knows how “proactive” this group has been under the leadership of Joe Morgan.
Good question on cheating, but I am not sure your analogy is the best.
To me the question is: Is there a difference between roughing up the ball or throwing a spitter to get yourself 300 plus victories and a place in Cooperstown to that of getting jacked up on roids to get yourself 500 plus HRs or to extend your career (like Roger) and a place in Cooperstown?
Again, I am a loyal Dodger fan and I will be the first to admit that Don Sutton spent his entire career digging his wedding ring into each and every baseball he ever picked up. This extended his career by a good 2 to 5 years and got him 324 career wins and 3,574 strikeouts. No one has ever accused him of tarnishing baseball’s sacred milestones or records.
To me cutting a ball, corking a bat, stealing signs, living on pep pills (MLB’s drug of choice from 1946 to this day) and getting jacked up on roids are all of MLB’s dirty little secrets that they choose to ignore or dismiss.
To paraphrase Otto von Bismarck “Laws (baseball in this case) are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made.”
June 30th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Loved Roger when he was with the Sox, hated to see him go. Hated him when he said he wouldn’t wear a Sox hat into the Hall and hinted that he might not even show up for his induction. Grew to like him again as he started to pay more attention to the Sox fans and mellowed out on the hat thing.
To me, he seems like a little kid who is in way over his head. If he were to come out now and admit his mistakes, I’d surely forgive him. I have that much sentiment for the player that he was. But it looks like that’s not going to happen.
I do think he will be inducted into the Hall. His induction, for me however, won’t be the happy event that it could have been.
July 1st, 2008 at 7:07 am
Bob,
I agree with you Roger will get into the Hall of Fame - not on the first ballot but he will get in and most of the joy has been taken out of it for myself and millions of other fans. It will be interesting to see the reaction of red sox nation since he will be wearing a hat with a letter “B” on it.
Merrill
July 1st, 2008 at 7:12 am
Ed,
It will be interesting to see how the veteran committee handles Pete Rose. I am sure that some of the committee does have a soft spot for him but Pete may have to admit even more of what he did and beg for forgiveness. maybe even do a PR campaign to help his image.
I do agree there is a difference between scuffing up a ball but the writers have trouble with voting on all this stuff. They are (as I am and probably you are) confused on who did what, when and what it all means. Since they really don’t know they probably will vote for the players the originally would have just not as quick…. meaning sure 1st time ballot locks who have a sketchy past will need to wait.
I do love your quote and believe that everyone including the commissioners office knew what was going on.
Merrill
July 1st, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Merrill -
In the end, there will be only one player from the Roid Era who will be excluded from the HoF - Rafael Palmeiro. Not because he lied about juicing and then was caught, but for breaking the unwritten rule of ratting on team mate Miguel Tejada.
As Jimmy Conway (Robert DeNiro) tells a young Henry Hill, in “GoodFellas” after his first arrest, “You just learned the two most important things in life: Keep your mouth shut and don’t rat on your friends”.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:34 pm
*Hall Of Fame* *Roger* *Rose* *Bonds* *********.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Ed,
I love your quotes - keep them coming. I also believe Canseco won’t get in because of Roids. Even though he doesn’t have 500 home runs he has world series rings and a ton of personal achievements.
I will need to give it some thought - who knows there might be others.
Merrill
July 1st, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Willie,
Not sure if you were serious with the *****. But you say put them in with the aestericks…… Interesting.
Thanks.
Merrill